The Economy - Cubit Hackers - And Some disclosure

SirKewberthSirKewberth EdenForum Administrator, Forum Moderator, Game Developer
in General Chat 102.25 Karma
Ok folks. Time to reveal what's been going on last couple of days.

So as players have noticed and posted threads about, some prices have gone up recently. We've been looking into it to decide if we needed to intervene and as a results discovered a serious problem. It seems not all of this was just organic changes in the economy.

A group of players found a way to buy gift pigs from the store for FREE. This was a complicated exploit where you had to make a number of specific steps, and it involved things like editing memory using hacking tools etc.. while you may be curious the details aren't too important to the outcome, and in the interest of not teaching people to damage the game I won't go into it further except to say that it wasn't something trivial anyone could just do. It required a lot of steps and specific circumstances, and even certain accounts/perks.

The players involved were careful to hide what they were doing by spreading out their purchases. Most of what they bought was stored. This means most DID NOT make it into the economy. That's the good news. In total we recovered a little more than 96% of it. How? Well, a lot of it was simply stored in realms as gold gift piggies. Not much was sold to other players because there's no point selling stuff if you have access to free cubits. Some of what wasn't stored was spent in the cubit store.

But the bad news is.. that other 3-4% still accounts for a fair amount and what wasn't spent in the cubit store, could be used for vends and trades, and that could have contributed to recent price rising in some cases depending what was bought. Though many items went up in price before this started too, so it's a contributor but not the entire cause. Sometimes things are just rare or become increasingly rare for other reasons. It's actually difficult to trace precisely how much of the exploit cubits were used for what because you have to trace it all down one by one for each player involved and all their alts. It's a big loss of time for us, but we're reviewing the logs now to get all that detail. Could take several days.

We debated rolling back the server to a previous date, which is what many other games with in-game economies have done is cases like this. We haven't completely ruled it out yet, but we mostly have because the amount of damage to players and community from a rollback seems right now to heavily outweigh the economic damage done so we want to avoid that if possible. We'd have to go back 10 days to cover all of it. If it was just a day or two we could do it more easily and probably would. But, I don't think players want to lose 10 days.

So what can we do? Well... Once we finish going through the logs we can via sales/vends/contests inject some items into the game to bring anything we think has gone up as a direct result of this back down to at least pre-hack levels if not beyond just as a general measure to combat item inflation. We may do some other things as well. A lot depends on what we find as we continue to investigate. The exploit itself has been patched and the players involved and their alts banned from the game.

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Comments

  • DoodleDogDoodleDog Member
    5.35 Karma
    Woah. Honestly, I have always been wondering where they get their money lol
  • JuIiusJuIius Member
    edited April 2019 124.45 Karma
    I was wondering how they seemed to have gotten millions of c.
    Well, going back in time in game 10 days will be kinda sad, I have managed to make a lot of cubits in the past few weeks. Most of it came from the banned players, so I guess this would be fair.
    Really though, how much damage was actually done? If the purple easter hat returns, it will be kind of like it was before.
    There is a certain screenshot taken by one of the guys, it is edited, but you can see he has 30m c.
  • noentnoent Member
    13.50 Karma

    I was wondering how they seemed to have gotten millions of c.
    Well, going back in time in game 10 days will be kinda sad, I have managed to make a lot of cubits in the past few weeks. Most of it came from the banned players, so I guess this would be fair.
    Really though, how much damage was actually done? If the purple easter hat returns, it will be kind of like it was before.
    There is a certain screenshot taken by one of the guys, it is edited, but you can see he has 30m c.

    Actually not only purple hats were damaged...
  • lucaaa795lucaaa795 Potatoe's worldMember
    382.20 Karma

    I was wondering how they seemed to have gotten millions of c.
    Well, going back in time in game 10 days will be kinda sad, I have managed to make a lot of cubits in the past few weeks. Most of it came from the banned players, so I guess this would be fair.
    Really though, how much damage was actually done? If the purple easter hat returns, it will be kind of like it was before.
    There is a certain screenshot taken by one of the guys, it is edited, but you can see he has 30m c.

    They were behind 90% of the inflation that occured during their "reign". 4% is most likely still a few tens of millions of cubits. 7m went only towards the purchase of easter purple hats. 7m went into the economy without a hassle.
    I'd vote for a rollback if you guys promise to test things more in the future before the release.
  • SirKewberthSirKewberth EdenForum Administrator, Forum Moderator, Game Developer
    102.25 Karma
    Well we have an exact account of what items already. Yes the purple Easter hat was one of them. But there were a bit more.
  • UU Member
    edited April 2019 214.95 Karma
    lucaaa795 said:

    I was wondering how they seemed to have gotten millions of c.
    Well, going back in time in game 10 days will be kinda sad, I have managed to make a lot of cubits in the past few weeks. Most of it came from the banned players, so I guess this would be fair.
    Really though, how much damage was actually done? If the purple easter hat returns, it will be kind of like it was before.
    There is a certain screenshot taken by one of the guys, it is edited, but you can see he has 30m c.

    They were behind 90% of the inflation that occured during their "reign". 4% is most likely still a few tens of millions of cubits. 7m went only towards the purchase of easter purple hats. 7m went into the economy without a hassle.
    I'd vote for a rollback if you guys promise to test things more in the future before the release.
    3ish Krampus’
    1 Ram
    2 Slimes
    2 Headless
    2ish Pjs
    1 Dino
    25 Purple Easter Hats
    1 Bcat
    1 Pumpkin Pet
    4 Easter Umbrella (All from a person who wasn’t circulating them anyways)
    5ish Halos (All from that same person who wasn’t circulating them)

    And of course some other small things.

    If you think about what we could of bought in 2 weeks with unlimited cubits, and what we really bought... We might of taken like 2 of some items out. But, we definitely could of completely crashed the game if that was our objective.

    All of the items are already in a friend possession waiting for the developers to say whether or not to give them away.
  • SirKewberthSirKewberth EdenForum Administrator, Forum Moderator, Game Developer
    102.25 Karma
    lucaaa795 said:


    I'd vote for a rollback if you guys promise to test things more in the future before the release.

    Honestly there's no amount of testing that would 100% ensure against this kind of bug. It's not something you'd even see with normal play. And even though we do sometimes hack our own game to test that, this was such a specific circumstance that I doubt we could have easily found it.
  • PixiePixie Pixie HollowMember
    3.45 Karma
    I would rather a rollback not occur due to the fact it would reset any and all building that has happened. I have several friends who have spent considerable time on builds the last couple of days and their progress would be lost. Please consider those who have built and how they should not be punished for the actions of a few.
  • UU Member
    214.95 Karma

    lucaaa795 said:


    I'd vote for a rollback if you guys promise to test things more in the future before the release.

    Honestly there's no amount of testing that would 100% ensure against this kind of bug. It's not something you'd even see with normal play. And even though we do sometimes hack our own game to test that, this was such a specific circumstance that I doubt we could have easily found it.
    I found it by mistake. The specific way it had to be done with removing cubits at a certain time and readding cubits then buying the pigs was so specific that the chance of me accidentally finding it is crazy. No developer would ever be able to find it while doing a general scan of cubits bug.
  • QuackersQuackers Member
    15.35 Karma
    it's rewind time
  • JuIiusJuIius Member
    edited April 2019 124.45 Karma

    Well we have an exact account of what items already. Yes the purple Easter hat was one of them. But there were a bit more.

    The halo also was damaged, it went from like 450-500k to 800k+
    They bought motley sets 600k each
    The fez also.
  • UU Member
    214.95 Karma

    Well we have an exact account of what items already. Yes the purple Easter hat was one of them. But there were a bit more.

    The halo also was damaged, it went from like 450-500k to 800k+
    We are waiting for the developers to tell us whether or not to giveaway every item we bought from the economy. Keep in mind. We only bought TWO halos from players. Four where from a player that had saved them for over 6 months and wasn’t planning on selling them until I said something.
  • lucaaa795lucaaa795 Potatoe's worldMember
    382.20 Karma
    Did you buy all 25 purple hats at 500k each by chance?
  • PiousPious Member
    edited April 2019 37.25 Karma
    lucaaa795 said:

    Did you buy all 25 purple hats at 500k each by chance?

    For the record, I already had a majority of the Purple Hats; no, I didn't buy all 25 in the course of our little fiasco. I had about half of them when they were cheap. When we figured out the exploit, I began buying them low; 100k-200k. They rose to 500k. I bought probably 6-7 @ 500k each. To my recollection.
  • UU Member
    edited April 2019 214.95 Karma
    lucaaa795 said:

    Did you buy all 25 purple hats at 500k each by chance?

    I don’t know. I have no idea what Pious bought them for.

    I do know we had around 10 before hand though.
    pious said:

    lucaaa795 said:

    Did you buy all 25 purple hats at 500k each by chance?

    For the record, I already had a majority of the Purple Hats; no, I didn't buy all 25 in the course of our little fiasco. I had about half of them when they were cheap. When we figured out the exploit, I began buying them low; 100k-200k. They rose to 500k. I bought probably 6-7 @ 500k each. To my recollection.
    Yeah, I would say you got about 20 of them with less then 3mil cubits. Then you started at 500k.
  • lucaaa795lucaaa795 Potatoe's worldMember
    edited April 2019 382.20 Karma
    Also, add to your list the motley sets that you mentioned in the activity post. And the fact that your gang raised the fez (although now its dropping back)
    pious said:

    lucaaa795 said:

    Did you buy all 25 purple hats at 500k each by chance?

    For the record, I already had a majority of the Purple Hats; no, I didn't buy all 25 in the course of our little fiasco. I had about half of them when they were cheap. When we figured out the exploit, I began buying them low; 100k-200k. They rose to 500k. I bought probably 6-7 @ 500k each. To my recollection.
    Oh ok
  • SirKewberthSirKewberth EdenForum Administrator, Forum Moderator, Game Developer
    102.25 Karma
    JUST FYI... I'm fine with people discussing this but I'd rather it be in general terms. If the thread devolves into guesswork (we have logs we can see the details) and fighting I'll lock it off.
  • PiousPious Member
    37.25 Karma
    lucaaa795 said:

    Also, add to your list the motley sets that you mentioned in the activity post. And the fact that your gang raised the fez (although now its dropping back)

    We never purchased a single Fez though. That was a complete troll. Ui, V, me, and PontoZen made hollas like: "Are the Fez's no longer in the packs? I can't get one and I've spent # of cubits!" and then other people went crazy and rose the price of it on their own.
  • UU Member
    edited April 2019 214.95 Karma
    pious said:

    lucaaa795 said:

    Also, add to your list the motley sets that you mentioned in the activity post. And the fact that your gang raised the fez (although now its dropping back)

    We never purchased a single Fez though. That was a complete troll. Ui, V, me, and PontoZen made hollas like: "Are the Fez's no longer in the packs? I can't get one and I've spent # of cubits!" and then other people went crazy and rose the price of it on their own.
    Yeah, if we bought any it was for very cheap. I think I bought about 4-6 for cheap, but when doing the hollas I didn’t actually buy any. Any person can do what we did with hollas.
  • SirKewberthSirKewberth EdenForum Administrator, Forum Moderator, Game Developer
    102.25 Karma
    Yes I already told Luca the Fez was not related. You don't have to guess what you THINK may have happened Luca. We have server logs. We can see, and despite your conspiratorial ideas about us wanting to raise the price of items, we don't consider any of this in the interest of us or the players. Lastly if we are looking into an issue we don't tell people because if something is going on we need to let the game run as normal while we investigate it or people will hide things and make it more difficult for us. So what you see as us not caring is sometimes just us doing what we have to do.

  • HONEY BOMBHONEY BOMB Member
    edited April 2019 112.95 Karma
    Pixie said:

    I would rather a rollback not occur due to the fact it would reset any and all building that has happened. I have several friends who have spent considerable time on builds the last couple of days and their progress would be lost. Please consider those who have built and how they should not be punished for the actions of a few.

    ^
    Not everyone should be punished just by those bad players what they have done .
    I also spend plenty of time for my current build and i think it can be finished on this week .
    The damages already been caused , just let them go and look for future.
  • chickenlipschickenlips Member
    4.70 Karma
    Thank you for addressing this and not doing a rollback I can prove where my cubits come from as your aware and know you would replace any purchases I've made during the rollback time but its a nightmare we both don't have to go through as I would have trouble remembering exactly what items Ive acquired over the time. I'm sorry for all the extra work this takes your end and from all the qbees thank you for taking this as purely your responsibility and doing all the work needed to fix this.
  • DoodleDogDoodleDog Member
    5.35 Karma
    Oh yeah and I dont want a rollback. I have done too much stuff in the last 10 days for now losing it because of a stupid exploit.
  • Pepper's Forum AccPepper's Forum Acc FamiliarMember, Familiar
    4.75 KarmaFamiliar
    So... Because I'm stupid.... These players wanted to destroy the game?
  • UU Member
    edited April 2019 214.95 Karma

    So... Because I'm stupid.... These players wanted to destroy the game?

    If we wanted to destroy the game every single player in the game would have a billion cubits. We bought very little compare to what we could of.

    Could have* you’re welcome Grace.
  • noentnoent Member
    13.50 Karma
    U said:

    So... Because I'm stupid.... These players wanted to destroy the game?

    If we wanted to destroy the game every single player in the game would have a billion cubits. We bought very little compare to what we could of.

    Could have* you’re welcome Grace.
    Actually there was not enough time to do it xD
  • UU Member
    214.95 Karma
    NoeNt said:

    U said:

    So... Because I'm stupid.... These players wanted to destroy the game?

    If we wanted to destroy the game every single player in the game would have a billion cubits. We bought very little compare to what we could of.

    Could have* you’re welcome Grace.
    Actually there was not enough time to do it xD
    We had two weeks of unlimited cubits. We had enough time to do hollas buying every item 1mil cubits each. Yet.. we didn’t do any hollas buying super Rares..
  • AkoSiGranicusAkoSiGranicus Member
    15.85 Karma
    Guilty? O.o
  • qbee vampireqbee vampire Member
    15.25 Karma

    Pixie said:

    I would rather a rollback not occur due to the fact it would reset any and all building that has happened. I have several friends who have spent considerable time on builds the last couple of days and their progress would be lost. Please consider those who have built and how they should not be punished for the actions of a few.

    ^
    Not everyone should be punished just by those bad players what they have done .
    I also spend plenty of time for my current build and i think it can be finished on this week .
    The damages already been caused , just let them go and look for future.
    I m against this too . In short , this will ruin entire CC .
    I can't imagine how everyone rage quits....
  • SirKewberthSirKewberth EdenForum Administrator, Forum Moderator, Game Developer
    102.25 Karma
    Right now it's looking like no rollback will be necessary, so I don't think you have to worry too much about it. We'll try to avoid it if possible.
This discussion has been closed.